Arnold Waldstein's Blog

Great read and you bring up an important point here. Organic does not equal great taste although I have sometimes the feeling that discounters which are offering their own low cost organic products now want to hook clients with this.

But you are right, we need to focus on naturally produced food again. And we need to develop our taste again, try things out and support local dealers and producers by eating after the seasons. What's the point in organic bananas which travel across the globe and have a carbon footprint of a dinosaur?

Hi Kirsten

Glad you liked this post…I had fun writing it and clarifying my thoughts.

The wine industry and the organic food industry as a whole are really confused about how to understand themselves, their incredible value…and communicate this to the mass market.

It needs to start with taste first in my opinion…everything else will follow.

The wine industry especially is at the chasm of confusion on how to engage itself with its passionate customers and how to build a referral based economy from one that is so riddled in some great traditions but old ways of addressing their value. I'll be writing on this very soon.

“…carbon footprint of a dinosaur”. Great phrase and a true thought.

Yes, taste is very important but a thing that I often experience when I have guests here in France for dinner and I serve “produits de terroir” they tend to find it too tasteful as they have never experienced a full fat matured French goat cheese or organic meat from real porc living in the countryside, e.g. meat that tastes like meat. But as soon as they get used to real taste, they can't go bag to generic food .

Real, good food (and wine) is challenging and you have to be open for this.

Very true…Kirsten.

Taste is personal, an ingrained habit and hard to change.

I'm not on a mission, nor the lunatic fringe…just really open to new tastes, especially in wine.

What's interesting is that in France, certainly one of the epicenters of great (and traditional) wine making, places like Arbois, a handful of Beaujolais producers, a few in the Rhone and others are making just shout-out-loud great organic wine.

Enjoy…and try a few of these.

…a great read Arnold. It is an inspiration for all of us to pen down exactly “Why?”. You've done this beautifully yourself.
Passion for the organic sector in general and the reasons behind it being “the right thing to do”, in the end, motivate our calling. The flip side of the coin is that these reasons need to be put into the correct perspective – that the quality and taste must speak loudly or our sector will remain a romantic niche market.
It is always a pleasure to follow your great wine finds that appear to exemplify both sides.

Hi Ed…thanks for the comment.

You should hold a 'contest' and have your community answer the 'why' question. It would make for a great read.

Two things:

-yes, I need to taste and review your wines. Been busy but I need to do this.

-Consider moving your publication and your own comments to Disqus…a powerful community that ties you together with the online world in a dynamic and real time way. And its free and easy to install on your site.

Thanks for a great post on organic wines and food. But I'll insert a little “nuance” in what you said: I think what is important is the “sense of place” that organic food or locally grown food and wine bring to the consumer. A consumer can get this sense by refusing to buy bananas from the other side of the planet and favoring local growers. It is what happens with the “Farmers' Market” development in the US and in France with the growing numbers of “locavores”. More and more people are buying seasonal fruit and vegetable grown locally. It goes in the same direction as organically grown but add a second dimension, space. Place and space are the bascis components of a healthy lifestyle.

Thanks for the comment.

I love the term 'locavore' and will reuse it and credit you (of course!).

Yes, buying and supporting local is right. I'm going to sign up for an 'organic crop share' service where I support and get part of weekly produce from a local organic farm delivered…I just like this idea.

As this relates to wine, it is more complex especially from a shipping and carbon footprint perspective. NY State is starting to produce some great wine but the idea that I won't buy wine from France and Spain and Italy…just can't happen;)

Well, I was visiting three very important wineries here in Catalunya: Jean León, Bodegas Torres and Cavas Freixinet. All of them are willing to increase sales of organic products.

From my site, these products should be the main reason of sales around the world, I tasted these kind of wines and cavas and they are simply amazing.

Don't hesitate to contact me If need information about wineries around Catalunya.

Regards,

Oscar Moreno

Thanks Moreno

We are in agreement…natural wines are now riding the wave of taste and public favor.

I see it in NYC for certain as the best wine shops and restaurants are awash in fantastic natural wines from France, Italy and especially Spain.

Again, thanks for your comments.

Drink organic because producers that have the commitment to go organic usually also have the same commitment to do everything at a higher level. They usually will spare less expense on farming and winemaking than their non-organic counterparts. Besides being good for the environment, having the organic stamp usually represents a commitment to excellence by the winery.
Also, these wines tend to be smaller production.

Very true Andrew…thanks for the comment.

Great article, Arnold. It is nice to see more encouragement for organic vineyards. We'd invite you to check out Nova Scotia's L’Acadie Vineyards http://www.lacadievineyards.ca L'Acadie is an organic producer with a geothermal winery and is consistently producing some of Canada's best sparkling wines with a recent win at the Canadian Wine Awards. Worth the visit to Nova Scotia!

Thnx for the comment…

I'll certainly check out L'Acadie. Who in NYC who carries your wine?

Nova Scotia in the early Fall sounds really refreshing after a hot summer in NYC and hanging out at too many airports.

Unfortunately the L'Acadie wines are only sold at the vineyard and select Nova Scotia liquor stores. It will have to be a trip to Nova Scotia in the fall.

So be it!

Thanks again for connecting.

Nice article! Its great to have someone cheering for the cause for once, and in such a poetic way! Thanks very much.

Thanks for the kind words Matthew.

I'm pretty passionate about this which I hope comes through.

If you'd like to repost or redistribute the post, shoot me a mail @ arnold@waldstein.com. I think this is an important topic and want to create the broadest possible discussion.

BTW..are you going to the wine bloggers conference in Austria in Oct?

Thnx again.

Do you understand the difference between “organic wine” and “wine made from organically grown grapes”? You seem to be describing the latter.

Good question and a huge subject to discuss.

As i wrote:

“I’m not downplaying the very real complexities of defining and legislating organic, natural and biodynamic. The food industry is still in turmoil over this after a decade. I have ideas on this that I will share in another post, but first things first is to understand the ‘why’ for a market before getting stuck in the ‘how’ of it.”

I'm following my passion for taste, my belief in terroir and the 'rightness' of this approach to farming and food creation. I get, to some degree of depth, the distinctions and decisions made in the vineyard and the cave.

But my goal in this post was to get a discussion going based on my belief in this direction.

I would greatly appreciate if you could weigh in on this and provide some guidance so we can have this discussion as well.

Much thnx

The US definition of organic wine requires no added sulfites. This is not the same as in Europe, because Europeans realize sulfites are 1) naturally occurring, and 2) essential to preserving wine's fresh fruit flavors. Look for “organic wine” on the label of those wines you like from France. If you don't see it, that's why.

You can listen to people like Matthew, who are selling you a product. And you can continue to help mislead other underinformed, but well-intentioned, consumers.

Or you can put a little effort into researching the reality.

Thanks for shedding more light on this–clarification is always welcome;-)

Two other links for my readers that may be helpful and interesting:

1. http://www.organicconsumers.org/Organic/OrganicWine.cfm

2. http://wblakegray.blogspot.com/2010/03/do-organically-grown-grapes-still-face.html

Your assistance in helping folks get the facts is great…your accusation of people like Matthew misinforming is neither correct nor helpful.

Passion for great wine and an organic approach to making it is why we gather here.

Great article Arnold. We do prefer Organic wines as well, and we are glad that the number of the true Organic wineries is growing on both sides of the Atlantic.

Great article Arnold. We do prefer Organic wines as well, and we are glad that the number of the true Organic wineries is growing on both sides of the Atlantic.

Great article Arnold. We do prefer Organic wines as well, and we are glad that the number of the true Organic wineries is growing on both sides of the Atlantic.

Great article Arnold. We do prefer Organic wines as well, and we are glad that the number of the true Organic wineries is growing on both sides of the Atlantic.

Thanks for stopping by. I'm a fan of your blog…

I tend to focus more on the European side of the world so please feel free to link to or share any lists or reviews of organic vineyards in California.

BTW…are you going to the Euro Wine Bloggers Conference in Austria?

Hi Wine Lover (WBG?),

Firstly, just to clarify I'm not selling a product – organicwinefind.com is a reference site only.

Secondly, its not clear to me why you insist on championing this anti US 'organic wine' stance? It's organic wine without sulfites – natural wine, and a response to a growing demand. And its not for everyone – for sure. As someone said recently in reference to Coturri – “thats some hippie wine”.

The point is though that isn't tasting and enjoying wine all about finding what we prefer? Isn't that something very individual. Some people love natural wine, some people hate it. Why not let the market decide. If its that bad word will spread and nobody will buy it.

Why do you feel you have to impose your opinion on other people rather than letting them make up their own mind?

Matt

Well said Matthew…

There is a difference between informing and mandating taste. This blog (and yours) is about the former. And this move to personal preference, sharing and referral-based economy is exactly where I see the industry going. And it is a wise path in my opinion.

… a couple of thoughts from someone who actually sells both Organic Wine and Wine Made with Organically Grown Grapes as our livelihood:

The US stance on Organic Wine labeling is particularly confusing to consumers. Wine is the only item on the list of USDA certifiable products that is not called “organic” even though well over 99% of its ingredients are organic. Wine is also the only product that had its organic labeling altered by the USDA by a potential allergic reaction (sulfites).

Apart from this appearing as an “unfair” treatment of one particular sector the ruling has also resulted in most consumers refusing to take the time to memorize the difference between “organic” and “made with…”. They just walk away.

This has kept the entire sector at less than 1% of overall wine sales in the US even though there are some fabulous wines out there. Many producers that are adhering to organic certification standards are choosing to not use the word “organic” at any point on their labels for fear of the backlash associated with the unknown.

I personally prefer the European, Canadian, Australian, Japanese…. (every other country in the world's) stance on Organic wine – except the US. Organic wine is Organic wine. Leave the sulfite discussion to the doctors.

Thank you for what you are doing Arnold in expressing your passion for why you like Organic wine and sparking debate, and thank you Matthew for developing, what appears to be, the new gold standard of reference on the subject.

Thanks Ed…for the kind words and the clarifying information.

I come to wine purely for the love of it and to organic because it appeals to my taste and my sensibilities.

I've spent a career building household brands and communities of interest, most recently on the social web. I'm getting very interested in building a community structure to further this debate around organic wine and to enable a referral based system to evolve. I'm very open to hearing ideas on this.

One last word…if we need to educate the entire wine drinking population of the world on what the words mean and how to read labels and on and on…this is a non starter. This is the old way of the wine world which says 'learn first, appreciate later'.

The consumer wants to simply appeciate first, and enjoy and share what they like. They are also smart and will pursue to enormous depth what they enjoy. This is what I want to empower with organic wine. Sounds like I am not alone, and that is encouraging.

Kirsten:
I like and agree with what you have said here.

At the risk of putting my hoof in my mouth, perhaps if your discomforted guests are from the US, the shock to their system of eating really tasteful food may originate from the US primary diet of so much pre-processed, quick and easy junk food?

Who cooks well and at home here nowadays? Not so many although the recent down-turn in our economy apparently has forced more families to attempt to do that rather than continue to eat out.

The Food Network has also really been doing well recently with seemingly a much broader range of offerings and new programs with fewer re-reruns of older programs which might be a good sign possibly indicating a growing interest in more healthful dining.

Perhaps even the recent movie “Julie and Julia” has helped in this direction?

BTW: I'm admittedly spoilt; my “American” born and bred wife is very interested in serving up healthy food and is really good at it though she insists that she was not born with a spatula attached to her hand.

So glad that I have discovered your blogging Arnold. You clearly have an innate ability to articulate ideas extremely well and in very interesting fashion.

I've always enjoyed wine since the days back when my parents introduced me to it. My Father even took to home-brewing some very good wines from some really interesting source materials. A good friend of my parents was the Chief Chemist at a very well regarded brewery in the UK who literally abandoned drinking his firm's beer in favor of my Father's wine and home-brewed beer when not in public view.

I find the argument about the inclusion or exclusion of sulfites as it effects the US determination of what is or is not Organic to be intriguing particularly because, as Wine Lover observes, sulfites do occur naturally: Hence perhaps what we need here in the US is another designation that clearly indicates wines offering that, albeit are organic in origin, are actually “suffering from an enforced reduction or elimination of sulfites” as distinct from those wines that are through and through organic from start to finish?

Thanks Peter

I'm hopeful that Ed or Matt will chime in on your last point.

For myself…I'm not certain what the answer should be…yet!

I'm a believer in protecting through legislation, not defining. And I don't believe you can force distinctions down the consumer pipeline. It won't work.

I'm going to think on this a bit, then write another post. Hopefully with some additional input.

I think a lot got also lost during the revolution of our work life. Which family gathers around the table once a day for a real meal, cooked by mom or grandma?

Looking back I was on the same road until one TV program changed everything for me: Jamie Oliver's Naked Chef. He was about the same age as me and he showed how easy cooking was. So I started to cook again. Even today, after a hard work day I still cook my own food as there are so many recipes that will take you not much longer to prepare than throwing something into the microwave.

And getting back to good products: if you have a really good full fat cheese, fresh butter, some fleur de sel, fresh bread from the farmers market some olives, olive oil, saucisson for the boys and a good (organic) wine, who needs to cook? Taste explosion guaranteed.

That all makes sense Kirsten: I understand and can relate. I also remember with great pleasure growing up and enjoying regular, wonderfully tasteful, home cooked meals using great food materials. We also had no TV distractions at the dinner table and both my Mother and my paternal Grandmother (who was also a very successful business woman/entrepreneur) were great cooks.

We had the benefits of having a farm in the family, my Father loved to garden as a relief from his exec work and my Mother also loved to cook jams, cakes and also to preserve and/or freeze produce from farm and garden.

So with all of that together with Father's home brewed wine, I was really spoilt before coming to the US. Fortunately, my wife (also a business woman) enjoys cooking and watches the Food Network with great interest plus we have a plethora of Food Magazines. Once again, I am now spoilt!

Reading your last paragraph makes my mouth water at the image conjured up.

Hey Arnold,

Great reading!

My father and his father used to make organic wine all the time, decades ago.
He still -proudly- talks about it.

It's much more than the wine itself, but a true connection between soil, deep understanding of nature and the love for making wine.

My father is from Sardinia, the family still has lands.. if only I had the knowledge… dreaming is good

Thanks Gian…I'm quite passionate about this.

And the topic is important based on the readership and the number of comments.

I couldn't agree more…organic is all about terroir. About place and people and the connection through the grape vine itself.

Sardinia…sounds wonderful. Consider yourself lucky to have such deep roots in an incredible culture.

Thanks, I am for sure.

We should talk about wine sometimes, wonderful topic… and I'll make some personal suggestions of good wines as well.

Absolutely…

Great post! I very much agree that taste is what matters first and foremost – if it doesn’t taste good then it doesn’t matter if it’s organic (both food and wine). The good news is that it’s possible to have both, you just have to find it And I love the concept of terroir, it adds so much context and interest to the wine.

As far as the different organic standards, I’m not sure what to make of that, it seems to have gotten very political with some completely opting out for that reason alone – I think what really matters is if the growers/artisans have a passion for what they do. It’s hard to imagine someone who cares a lot about their product being fine with adding toxic chemicals to the soil or using ingredients that contain these chemicals in their products. Transparency seems to be a key issue here so people can make educated choices about what it is they’re consuming.

I look forward to reading more!

Thanks Helene

The more I think about this the messier it becomes and the more important it is to figure out.

I”m doing some researching now on a post that is from the consumer perspective on how to figure out and understand what you are buying at the point of purchase.